Join the Redefining Society podcast with hosts Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin and their guest Karen Eber as they explore the art of storytelling and how it can be applied to the cybersecurity industry. Karen shares tips on making your story captivating and made with your target audience in mind, amongst other advice, that she will reveal during her session at the RSA Conference 2023.
Guest: Karen Eber, CEO and Chief Storyteller at Eber Leadership Group
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/kareneber/
On Twitter | https://www.twitter.com/kareneber1
On YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/c/KarenEber
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Hosts:
Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/sean-martin
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This Episode’s Sponsors
BlackCloak | https://itspm.ag/itspbcweb
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Episode Notes
"Join the Redefining Society podcast with hosts Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin and their guest Karen Eber as they explore the art of storytelling and how it can be applied to the cybersecurity industry. Karen shares tips on making your story captivating and made with your target audience in mind, amongst other advice, that she will reveal during her session at the RSA Conference 2023."
Welcome to the Redefining Society podcast with your host, Marco Ciappelli. In this episode, we will be exploring the art of storytelling with our guest, Karen Eber. Karen is the founder of the Ebro Leadership Group, which helps companies build healthy leaders, teams, and cultures through storytelling. Karen has a wealth of experience in this field, having spent 20 years as a chief learning officer and head of culture in the Fortune 500. Karen's TED talk on what happens in our brains when we listen to stories went viral, and she has a book coming out that explores how to use science to make your stories more engaging.
In this episode, we will be discussing whether stories need to have an ending, how to engage your audience with your story, and how the way you tell a story can make all the difference. Karen shares some tips on how to make your story more captivating, such as using specific details and unexpected scenes to hook your audience's emotions and senses. Marco and Karen also discuss how storytelling can be applied to the cybersecurity industry, and whether we need to tell more engaging stories to reach a broader audience.
So, whether you're a seasoned storyteller or just starting out, join us on this episode of Redefining Society and discover how to use the power of storytelling to engage your audience and achieve your desired outcomes. Don't forget to subscribe and share with your friends!
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Resources
The Book: https://www.kareneber.com/book
Karen's Ted Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/karen_eber_how_your_brain_responds_to_stories_and_why_they_re_crucial_for_leaders
Learn more, explore the agenda, and register for RSA Conference: https://itspm.ag/rsa-cordbw
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Catch the video here: https://youtu.be/U7B_wUN8Pe8
For more RSAC Conference Coverage podcast and video episodes visit: https://www.itspmagazine.com/rsa-conference-usa-2023-rsac-san-francisco-usa-cybersecurity-event-coverage
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it “as it is” and we hope it can be useful for our audience.
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00:15
Either we're there or not. ITSPmagazine still gets the best stories that are plenty of conferences and all sorts of events that spark our curiosity and allow us to start conversations with some of the world's brightest minds, in person or virtually, we sit down with them at the intersection of technology, cybersecurity, and society. Together, we discover what the synergy of these three elements means for the future of humanity. Knowledge is power, now more than ever.
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Sean Martin 01:14
Marco,
Marco Ciappelli01:15
Shawn, you want me to guess what you're gonna say? To get your wasn't dark and stormy night,
Sean Martin 01:23
the Dark and Stormy boys around the fire and set said Tell us a story Jack. Jack said, Okay, boys, here goes dark. And now I'm gonna go on our chats and our chats on the road. I'm gonna, I'm gonna pummel you with that story. It's a long story. It's never, and you're gonna get tired of it.
Marco Ciappelli01:44
I don't know if you want to hear that for five hours, or how long it takes to go from LA to San Francisco. So you better get you better get to learn some other story and
Sean Martin 01:54
find an ending. Story not having anything doesn't have to have an ending. Who knows. That's, that's for our guest, Karen Eber. Thanks for joining us.
02:06
Delighted to be here.
Sean Martin 02:08
And as you can tell, we like to have fun with telling each other stories, and some people may enjoy it. But we're super thrilled to have you on our chats on the roads, RSA Conference in San Francisco, where we kind of tee up some of the things that are being discussed and and presented and, and, and no, maybe no, negotiated and discuss or in any way throughout the whole week, and your session caught our attention. It's all about storytelling. And we're gonna get into that in a moment. But first, we want to hear your story, your journey up to up to that moment where you're going to be speaking in San Francisco.
02:53
It started long, long ago on a dark and stormy night. Is that how you begin?
Sean Martin 02:59
The dark and stormy night for sure.
03:01
I come to storytelling by way of the Fortune 500. Which is logical? Isn't that what everybody does? I spent about 20 years in roles as a chief learning officer and a head of culture where I was trying to either shape culture or roll out different initiatives where very few people could say yes, and many people could say no. And so I found that stories were just such a great way to open up discussion and get a common understanding of data and, and get to different outcomes. And so I have opened my own company, Eber leadership group that focuses on helping companies build healthy leaders, teams and culture and often using storytelling. I had a talk on TED go viral, because it was about what happens in your brain when you're listening to stories. And I'm building on that and a book on publishing that is, what do you then do with that science in your stories to make them be really engaging and get the brain hooked in them?
Marco Ciappelli04:00
I love it. I'm gonna go to start.
Sean Martin 04:03
I'm gonna go back like what does your story have to have an end?
04:07
It doesn't. So it's one of the things that happens in our brains is we're automatically making assumptions for trying to predict what comes next. And so if the story doesn't end, our brains are going to make up 10 different endings. Anyway, it's like our own little chat GPT spinning around up there. If you are trying to reach a specific desired outcome, sometimes you don't need the end of the story. You just need the idea. And so as long as you are able to convey a story that gets to that desired outcome of what you want your audience to know, think feel or do. You don't have to give them the outcome. In fact, I tell a story in the opening of my TED Talk that doesn't really have an ending but it gets to the point where it reinforces an idea and we move on and it doesn't feel incomplete.
Marco Ciappelli04:56
And I think that's exactly the tricks that we play. When we tell stories a good story makes, it's not just one way, right? So it's a two way conversation you engage, you make the brand going, some people are better at listening to an audiobook or a podcast, some other people need the visual. Some other people like to read it. But I think in the end, that's what you're doing, you're stimulating the listener or the reader brain.
05:26
You are, but not every story is the same, because we've all sat at the holiday tables with the relative that just starts on their script of the stories. And it's like, if he tells this story one more time, I'm gonna go mad. The way you tell a story makes a difference. And if it didn't, every story we tell would be captivating. And that's just not true. And so there are certain things you can do to engage the brain to really hook to the emotions and senses and put in specific details. Or if you think of a movie that you're watching, that that scene that is unexpected, or that I didn't see that happening, like all of these things, get your brain to spend calories, which is what you ultimately want to do when you're telling a story. Because if the brain spends calories, it's more engaging in paying attention. When it doesn't, it's those nights where you just turn on Netflix and put on the show you've seen many times before because you don't want to thank you just want to go into numb mode.
Sean Martin 06:22
And for those who are going to be in San Francisco, they can I'm not going to tell the story. Now. I'm going to hold the story. There's a little suspense with this one, you can ask me about, like crashing the reality TV producers Christmas party, I might share a few nuggets from that. We'll leave that there Marco.
Marco Ciappelli06:41
Well, I liked that you said that because you know, and connecting with with Karen, it's about the story. So the story needs to be kind of good. And it's the way you tell the story. So you need kind of both. And I'd like to make the connection here with the industry that we're talking about, which is cybersecurity. We have been on it for a while some longer than me. But we've always thought about this, like, are we telling the right story? Are we keeping it a little too technical? Are we playing too much? On the fear? Are we playing too much on the things that other brand that other industry are not playing? With? And so I like to make the connection, because I'm sure a lot of people are going to look at the agenda, and gonna be like, oh, what we're gonna talk about creative storytelling at RSA. Okay, what's going on here? So tell me about that. That connection there.
07:41
Yeah, which one of these things is not like the other? Welcome to my session to my keynote. So there's two things I want to mention about that. Part of the reason why we tell stories, especially for cybersecurity is there's just a wealth of data, on risks on attacks on all of these problems. But if you aren't taking someone through the data, everyone's going to come to their own interpretation of it. Data doesn't speak for itself, despite the fact that we love to think it does. We each look at a piece of data and infer many things based on our own individual experiences. So what a story can do is take everyone through it. So there's a common understanding. And it allows for you to have a discussion, starting at a different point, it's a level setter, that makes sure that people aren't making assumptions that are inaccurate. And that is really important when you're working through the data. It also can help you see things that you can't unsee, which is where you're bringing meaning to the data, that's just incredibly powerful. That is helpful. The other thing I would say is that, you know, storytelling is creative, for sure. But it is really about building an understanding in someone's brain. It is how you are helping them just come to what they need to understand about something. And so often, the the people that are communicating, have reams of data and knowledge and things that they're close to, but the people they're presenting to don't have that same level of intimacy with it. And so it's how are you imparting that knowledge and someone in the best way possible, and using a story can help build that.
Sean Martin 09:18
And I can't help but go here. So I'm going to use I have the honor and privilege to teach some students at Pepperdine Graziadio Business school there. And it's around security analytics. So these students come in, they're all about Tableau and getting getting their hands dirty on the data. And every, every session is about can we get more data, we want to see more data, and which is great. You have to have data. So I guess a few things that I'm thinking about here is what do we do for stories when there's a lack of data? What do we do when we can't connect all the data we think we need throw a bunch of things out here, you can kind of roll with it however you like. And how much of it is actual data driven versus gut? When we when we tell the story, I'll just kind of leave those three things there for the moment. Yeah,
10:14
just some light, easy topic. Sure. Well, yeah. Um, so for starters, what I try to work with people on is thinking about what questions you want the data to answer before you even collect it. Because so often, what happens in so many fields is we just have so much data and then we put it in and 50 slides, and you know, have 20 things on one slide, and we let that drive the conversation. But we haven't really worked through what are those decisions we're trying to make? What are these milestones? What are we? What are we trying to do with it? And so the best thing is, before you collect anything, define what that is, because then you start to use the data more intentionally. And that helps you see, well, you know, what, we don't have data here, there isn't a story to tell, because maybe our question was wrong. Or maybe we're not collecting the right data or something like that. So many people start with what they have, and then try to figure out a story instead of starting with, what do they need to know or explore, understand, and then looking at things. And so to me, when you start with the data and start digging around with it, it's almost like those science experiments where you write your hypothesis after you validated it. And so flipping, it makes a difference. To give me one of your other questions, there were so many in there.
Sean Martin 11:34
So, connection of data. So you might have enough data to make a decision. But if you don't look at some of the adjacent information, you might, you might actually miss the big picture, he might tell a quick story and get somebody to do something, but not get the outcome you really want.
11:51
Yeah, it is definitely tricky. Because it's easy to overgeneralize the data and miss things that are really important to it, I find some of that upfront stuff helps get really clear of once you decide what type of decision or action is needed, or if you're monitoring and looking for outliers, then you can start to say, what are all the different pieces of data that we need to support that? And what does that look like? And you start to see, I find so much of it is that upfront stuff versus picking a piece of data and then trying to say what, what story does it tell you can get there, but there's a potential missing stuff going the other way?
Sean Martin 12:30
Then this is a typical example. I'm gonna I'm going to stop you one quick. Because
Marco Ciappelli12:35
I think Yeah, cuz then I'm gonna make a point. About what?
Sean Martin 12:40
Exactly, because because security leaders, yeah, I've experiencing, they talk to peers, they may not see that. And that was kind of my third point, which is around the gut. I've seen this, not in my data, but I've seen it, it feels like I could see it, but it's not presenting itself. And I've heard it from my peers, and they're actually seeing it at the same moment that I'm feeling. My gut tells me something. How big of a part is the gut feeling and storytelling to actually get something done? Yeah,
13:13
I mean, the gut feel is there for a reason. And it's up to each person to figure out, what is it that we need to explore? So is it that I'm hearing this from other people, but I'm not seeing it, and we want to look at it and see, there's nothing wrong with telling a story about saying, you know, inferring the gut feel, it's, you can tell a story about any piece of data, but being clear about why you're doing it. And what you want done with it is the key. I think where people feel that storytelling with data is manipulative is is they think that there's like this master narrative and story that you're trying to get to versus I'm trying to help people say, How do you get really clear on the discussion that's needed? So in the case of a gut feeling, maybe there isn't data to back it up, but you don't want to spend some time talking about it? Because we think there should be and we're not quite clear why there isn't. So let's talk about what are we missing? Is there something else we want to look at? What how do we pay attention to this or resolve it in our minds, I find the stories can help support the type of action needed for the audience. One of my clients is in Fortune 500 company that specializes in cybersecurity. And they have this one side that they share small, with small, medium businesses that this gets to that question about fear. And it is all of these statistics about the risks for small and medium businesses, but it's too much on the slide. You can't even process the risk and the cost of the risk and what happens and so they show it and it's there, but what they're missing is the chance to connect the small medium business to what this is. So they just told one story about one business that's experiencing this and what the risk was and the cost to the business and what happened and Then these zoomed out and showed this is one story of many. And here's what we're seeing in this industry, here's what it looks like, let's have a discussion, people are going to connect with that differently. And so sometimes you're not telling a story about the whole dataset, you're telling the smallest story possible, so people can identify with it and understand it before they step back and see the bigger piece of it.
Marco Ciappelli15:26
80 years in this industry, that you're just condensed in one slide, in operation? Well, it's just it's simplify kinda like the complexity. And also at the same time, what I think is the simplicity of telling the story, right? So and I was making a joke with Shawn, because Shawn is very in deep into cybersecurity. And even if I have to say, I mean, that's why we tell story together, because there's an excellent storyteller. But when he get wrapped into the data, and, you know, and the algorithm and all that kind of stuff, it's like, let's focus on that. And for me, it's like, that's kind of like a chapter maybe. But if you just focus on that you're not telling your story. So that's kind of like what I'm thinking. So I would like to get to elevate this conversation a little bit on a bird eye view and talk about what where do you start when you want to tell a story independently from what the industry is? I mean, even if you're writing a Disney script, or Pixar or a great storytelling, is there a rule? I mean, that we can follow the word
16:47
suddently? Absolutely. And it's probably counter to what most people think your stories always, always start with the audience. And the reason is that you are going to tell a story differently to each audience. So you want to stop and think about who am I communicating this to? What are they know, what do I want them to know, think feel or do what might be obstacles that they're facing. And you can do this five minutes before a meeting, but you want to get really clear, because until you do that, you can't stick the landing of your story, you might have the same story that you tell slightly differently, like the points might be there. But the way you connect each person to it would be different. And so to use a small and medium business example, I would tell her a story for a small medium business to their industry or to a circumstance they can identify with, otherwise, I don't connect with it, I don't feel like it's relevant for me, and it just passes over me. So every story personal professional movie data, you want to get really clear on your audience. And so Pixar does that they are building a persona for, of course, we have the child ages six to nine. But there's also the parent that's taking them. And so what are we doing for both to make a meaningful outcome.
Sean Martin 18:09
And the outcome, that's, that's the ultimate goal, and you said earlier may not have an end to the story. And maybe we leave a little suspense. So somebody can kind of envision their own end. But if you don't, to your point, you have to know who the audience is. And then also know what the outcome you want is and then in the middle is kind of where the villains come in. And, and the heroes come together and, and they present things that that hopefully the audience, anything that speaks to food, I'm in that story. Talking about eaten eaten a nice pastrami sandwich, there's a slice of pizza on it.
18:52
The great equalizer, you know, when you're telling stories with data, there often isn't an end, because you are having people reach a common understanding so that there can then be a discussion or a decision, or, Hey, let's monitor this. The goal is always to create that that understanding, I worked with someone who went said, simple data leads to complex conversations. And what they meant was that if you don't take someone through the story of the data and create that common understanding, there often is this big debate about do we trust the data? What's the quality of the data, how clean are the data, and the whole meeting, the whole discussion ends up this fight about the data and nothing is ever done with it. And so when you can guide people through to get to that place, it ends up being a different type of discussion, even if there's no ending to it, which there often isn't with with data, because the ending comes from what is discussed with the group.
Sean Martin19:50
Yeah, and I think the having having so much data, oftentimes, or even if you have a lot of data in and you see something in there, that may not be the important thing. And I think that's why. And I can kind of speak to a lot of the companies that build solutions. And they have that slide that says, here's all the bad stuff that can go wrong. Here's all the ways they'll impact the business. And here's how you're going to lose money and reputation. And it's four or five slides leading that whole scary story in the play. A lot of that, I feel is because you said the word Trust, I think we're trying to build with the industry is trying to build trust with the people that they're trying to protect. And in that they're there. They're trying to prove that they know what they're talking about, so that they can then continue with the story and have that level of trust. And well, maybe that's on our Marco. Yeah,
Marco Ciappelli20:49
no, I just thought about a metaphor because I'm big in using metaphor to tell stories and I'm connecting all this light with a lot of information, what you just said with the straw that we know the topic and the data that we have. And I'm gonna give you a metaphor you're gonna like it's about food. Being Italian, I always say, you know, the dish is not the ingredients in it. It's it's, you can't say this is good, because I'm going to put this ingredient this ingredient isn't us is how you put it together is how you cook it together how you present it. So for me, it's a great metaphor for a good story. And then of course, if the data is great, that's it, you got a great meal.
Sean Martin 21:28
So I hope that and
Marco Ciappelli21:32
exactly, and I got your attention. So see, that's a good strategy. But to build on, how about if I
21:37
knew you loved cheese, I would tailor and make sure those ingredients were there like I would change the ingredients based on who I'm serving that meal to? And the same is true for the story. You go for what everyone likes? See?
Marco Ciappelli21:52
No, no.
Sean Martin 21:55
Marketing is not enough.
Marco Ciappelli21:59
How about content marketing, so
Sean Martin 22:02
talk to us content marketing,
Marco Ciappelli22:05
content marketing, my son and I, we've been doing so many podcasts by now. But we started as a publication that was written then in the last three, four years with a lot of story either directly or with other hosts. And now it's become the big thing. Everybody wants to be on a podcast, everybody wants to have an ambassador that can tell his story. What is your opinion on this? I mean, are we doing it right? I mean, as an industry, are we what's the missing ingredient, or the
22:40
idea, and I think it's smart. I think that if you think back to the first mass communication, it was printing press, where people were reading, which was stories, and then it was radio, where we were listening, and I feel like podcasts are circling back to radio where people would sit and listen and hear these stories and get their news and get their, their insights. And it's because we have the opportunity of choice. So we can find those places that are interests and get in get the information we need and get out. You know, we're not limited to set channels or set stations that we have to get this from. And so the more niche you are in your content marketing, the more specifically you are talking to a group, the more you'll find your people, no one will be applicable to everyone and you shouldn't try to be but the more you can focus on the audience and the message that you have, the more meaningful that is because we have this opportunity of choice right now.
Sean Martin 23:39
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to the word trust as well, because I don't know how many how many 1000s and I'm not gonna I'm not exaggerating, 1000s of blogs and 1000s of white papers and 1000s of ebooks and solutions briefs that I've created over the 2030 years that I've been doing this stuff. One of the big things that often comes from a vendor perspective is to have some data that reinforces the story that they want to share. And yeah, and then obviously, that's a third party, that hopes hopefully builds credibility to this as well. So I'm wondering your thoughts and storytelling, both in that context, but then also having an independent column an influencer, somebody who somebody who knows enough to help lead a conversation like such as this to help find the right story to reach that audience that they're trying to connect to, again, for the for the purpose of credibility and trust.
24:49
So in my talk, I'm gonna get into what is happening with trust in the brain when you're listening to stories. But what I want to say here is that when someone's listening to you You they are trying to make sense of do I trust this person? Do I trust the data? Do I trust the person that's just happening consciously anytime we're even subconsciously, more listening to this information. And so what stories are going to do is give a chance for people to connect with the data differently. So if you picture, the Red Cross, right global organization, whenever there's a disaster, they are telling the story of one family that lost their home of the disaster of not having clothes and food and water. And then once you connect with that story of that one, they zoom out and you see the scale. And when you're listening to that, you're not thinking why not trust them, they're trying to manipulate me mean, they're very transparent, their goal is raise money and help you understand the severity of this very quickly. And so it's very possible to use these illustrations to connect people to it and understand data in a different way. The influence or the third party is the layer of trust, that is tricky, because it can either create that, oh, I'll have what she's having moment of ice, the problems or challenges they were facing and what they did. And I want that that's what I aspire to get to? Or it could be well, I don't identify with them at all. That's not relevant for me. And so that doesn't matter. And so it's again, who is your audience? And what are you trying to do and what represents that, and it's usually not one story that does all of that for one organization, right? We all need multiple stories to connect to these different challenges and pain points and fears and aspirations that customers have, because that's what is ultimately going to motivate them to buy.
Marco Ciappelli26:46
Yeah, I love that. As a matter of fact, when we tell stories that our promotional story we like to call it chapters of of a book, because we kind of lay you know, first we start with the origin story, how did the idea come? The why? How the founders came together, like you know, using an archetype system, and then and then develop when you have another announcement. But where I want to go here, maybe with the last question, although I do have a list 10 here listed, and I'll have to invite you back for another conversation about storytelling is this. What have you seen? Maybe a big question. So to summarize it, big changes between our traditional way to tell stories, and the way we tell story in a digital connected social media. Everything is right there you to kind of way like you know, we there any tips that you can suggest here to people that are making this story, to sell a product to represent the brand and that they need to adapt to a traditional way of telling a story.
27:58
What is traditional mean to
Marco Ciappelli28:01
traditional means to take your time, listen to your whole entire book on your own and absorb the story, maybe listening to an entire podcast or drama on the radio, or maybe watching an entire movie versus being bombarded by a world full of conductivity, where you're distracted constantly. And also everybody is not just the author, or the director telling you the story, but you a lot of people are telling you anything and you know, kind of overwhelmed. bombardment.
28:42
That way our attention span shorten to I believe the last research said about six minutes through the pandemic that we can do a good solid six minutes to focus and then it gets disrupted, I thought it was less. The reset time also is incredibly hard. It can be up to 22 minutes to reset. So you're constantly fighting for attention or keeping attention. What I find is stories give you permission to tell more stories. So you want to capture someone's attention, which is not through necessarily the 60 minute thing or a book. Although for some people, you will catch that. But it's more if you can talk to the pain points or the challenges, the aspirations. You get into those things that the client or the customer says, oh, that's me. Oh, I have that. Oh, that's yeah, I want to know more about that, then you catch their attention, and they start to pay attention to more and they'll start to listen to the longer pieces and consume more of the pieces. It's not just one or the other. It's having a mixture of things to catch people where they're at. But you do have to get to these. These things that people wake up with each week and think like, oh gosh, how am I going to deal with this or I'm afraid of this? Because those are the things that are going to move motivate them to pay attention more.
Marco Ciappelli30:02
So create little ads 30 seconds.
30:06
I don't know, it's you listen to ads.
Marco Ciappelli30:09
I love ads. That's why,
Sean Martin 30:12
whenever about pizza, yeah.
30:15
But it's a Super Bowl, because you know, you're going to be entertained, you know, there's gonna be a good story, you know, right. And your average streaming service or whatever you're watching, you're looking for that fast forward, because it's like, Why? Why is it through that? I think, you know, in some places, print works in some places, multimedia, social media works, or YouTube, having a variety is really helpful. So part of figuring out your audience is figuring out where is your audience? And what are they consuming. I had someone tell me that they looked at their list, and they saw their newsletter list was filled with email addresses, like aol.com. And so they made a print newsletter that they mailed out to them because they thought this demographic wants to be able to sit down and like read a proper newsletter and have a slower pace of information that no one else would do. That's part of that figuring out the audiences figuring out where are they going to be? And how are they consuming things.
Sean Martin 31:13
So let's talk about your audience for your session. And how you we don't want to give away your session, right? When it's, I think it's gonna be streamed online, when is that? Wednesday, the 26th 1045. Pacific. So it's a short, short presentation, I presume, it's going to be all about getting people to think and hopefully spend more time thinking after they hear you. So how, how did you go about it? Let's just say it's five minutes. So I'm thinking, I'm also thinking the folks in the sand, the launch pad who have a few minutes to pitch their idea to the shark. People that prepare their submissions for the conference. And they have to be succinct and tell a story that gets the board to say this is really good. How do you or how did you create, perhaps your submission and or your session to connect with this audience? Because you one of the things you say in your description is demystifying and maybe some of the people think, well, I know how to tell stories already. I don't need to have a demystified. So how do you how do you? How did you approach this audience did that come into mind those types of things,
32:33
I think the best thing everyone can experience is having to give a talk in five minutes or 10 minutes, because then you take what you might normally say in an hour or 30 minutes, and you have to just ruthlessly get to what is the idea what has to stay what's going to get across. And this is the same thing that if you were meeting with a CEO, you thought you had 30 minutes, and they're like, sorry, I only have five minutes, you've got to be able to come in and say here's what I want you to come away with. That ability to have to slash and get to a very specific message is really powerful. And so I do this all the time in my work of what has really earned its place in this talk, and what is the nice to have? And how do I make sure that I'm sharing what has earned its place? So what I'm going to talk about and actually demystify is what is happening in our brains. Going beyond some of the things some people may have heard about storytelling, getting into hell, or making decisions and how stories are going to impact all of that, and sharing a story that illustrates some of it.
Marco Ciappelli33:38
So have you ever mined CMOS, branding people or salespeople because you know, they gotta tell good stories in a very short amount of time.
33:49
I have an interesting topic that doesn't line up to one audience because CIOs CFO is your average person that's a data analyst, a person that's just getting ready to give a toast like we all have to give stories in different ways. And so the process works regardless of your role. And there's a methodical step by step process that you can learn and apply. But how you tell it is going to vary based on the different audiences. So I don't have one, I do frequently help the, the engineers, the CTOs, the CFOs, the HR departments, creative departments, mediators, people that are just looking to be able to communicate more dynamically.
Sean Martin 34:34
Nice. I can I can envision your tongue saying you only have a few minutes with the CEO you thought you had 30 And by the way, you don't get a presentation. It's on on the way down to the car and the elevator. So forget.
34:48
That's a good practice. Anyway, if you think about that for every meeting, like what's my five minute warning, or my two minute warning, then you can land your points every time. Yeah.
Sean Martin 34:58
Super cool. Well, I'm I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm in agreement. We need to have you back on. I want to hear more about the TED Talk and the upcoming book. And I think we have a lot more things we can dig into for from a storytelling perspective. Yeah. Hopefully, yes. Bring some more food analogies. And so hopefully you do that with us. But in the meantime, we, we'd really encourage everybody to join your session on Wednesday, the 26th. Let me just make sure I get the time. It's 10:45am Civic. And stay tuned for links in the show notes to connect with Karen and Uverse session and stay tuned for a book coming and hopefully a future episode on audio six. Thank you for having me.
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